Bread People: What's up-my starter got the white "mold" again-am I doing this all wrong? What gives?

M

mariadnoca

Moderator
It's not as bad as before (likely because I caught it earlier), but I'd thought before it was because of the jar lid. This time I covered it with a very thin dishtowel and it happened again.

I scraped together 1 teaspoon starter from under the white stuff and mixed it with 32 g water and 44 g rye flour. That was Wednesday night. Then I stuck it on an open cupboard shelf with the thin towel as a lid, peeked yesterday and it looked fine then ignored it till this morning. My house temp is 68F when the heat is on, about 61F when it's not, and maybe into he 50's at night in the house when the heater is off.

Below is what I found -- I have no idea what to do. I've done versions of searches for "white stuff on starter" and found nothing.

Is it dead/infected? Should I toss it?

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/IMG_2398_zpse4596ac0.jpg

I swear(!) my fingernail isn't dirty, but yeah it looks like in this:

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/f729b685-a251-43e0-a226-e82aa686226c_zps01b2ed14.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/b20f8dc2-5323-416c-a005-24f85a5e89ca_zps3d45708a.jpg

 
I must have missed previous threads on this. Is it a special type of starter? I don't think I could

kill mine! New refrigerator froze it, went away and didn't feed it for a month, and left it on the counter in the sun all day.

Is mine really hearty or are you doing something really complicated?

 
I am not sure you have a problem....

.... I just wish I could see it up close and personal, because it is hard through the photo

the rye flour will make the starter look quite a bit funky, much more than if you refresh with white flour only - so I think everything could be perfectly fine with your starter.

try one thing for me, get a teaspoon of this starter, and mix it with 100g water to dissolve completely. Now add 100g of flour and mix - just white flour, no rye this time.

see what happens after 12 hours at room temp

 
Ok, but FYI 1 teaspoon will likely be all of the starter I have - is that ok?

Also, the first time I got my hands into it - no choice to get it out of the jar and separate the underside from the white stuff -- the white stuff was definitely "crusty" on top.

 
I think it is too dry. I always use equal parts flour and water by weight. It stays batter-like

and when it goes up then comes down it eventually forms a layer of liquid on top. Yours looks like it formed a crust. But it's alive--you can tell from the way it heaved up in the middle.

 
I don't get it... you have JUST one teaspoon total????

Ok, maybe that's part of your problem - you should make a larger volume of it - in fact, some bakers insist that a starter should be kept at a large volume, even if it means a big amount of waste. I don't follow that rule, but I try to keep more than 100g of starter going on. Often more around 200g.

Still, even if you have only one teaspoon, use it all and from then on, make sure to get just a small amount of it to refresh - if your starter is a large proportion of the new refreshment, the acidity will be too high from the get go. Dilute it more to ensure a beginning of growth at a higher pH, closer to neutrality.

 
my fault

I'm the reason she has such a small amount of starter. It offends my frugal nature to throw away larger quantities. Yes, I know it's only flour and water. Yes, I'm the same person that spends crazy amounts of money on food, drink, and travel. I have many idiosyncrasies!

I followed your sourdough recovery instructions (http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2013/08/09/sourdough-blues/) but after I had been at the dough stage for a while I began refreshing using only 1/2 tsp of the starter, 16g water, 22g rye flour. I had no problems with this and baked successfully from it several times. The batch before the one I shared with Maria was stored in a cupboard instead of the counter (I've since returned my jar to the counter). I mailed a piece to Maria the day after I refreshed. A couple days later, I noticed a faint white coating on my sample. I dug out 1/2 tsp from below the white crust and refreshed as described above. So far no more white stuff. I'm planning on refreshing tonight or tomorrow then taking a bit out to make some 100% hydration using AP flour. If that behaves properly I'm planning to bake with it.

I feel horrible that I sent Maria contaminated starter and probably led her astray with my directions. Once I'm sure what I have is OK I'll send her a new piece if she'll have it.

 
I think mine is back to normal

I'm so sorry for sending you a contaminated sample and probably leading you astray with my modifications to Sally's instructions. I'll send you a new piece once I'm sure mine is OK (if you 'll have it!). You may want to follow Sally's instructions with regard to quantities. I guess I have been living on the sourdough edge and pulled you over with me.

 
Ah, that explains it!

Ok there is really no problem in keeping the amount of starter small up to the point of making bread, when you will then generate an amount compatible with the recipe. But, I think you took the reductionist approach a little too far... smileys/wink.gif

It's all about proportions, and if you have a very small amount of starter, first it will dry out a lot faster, which might interfere with the efficiency of fermentation, things need to have enough moisture to keep all reactions at proper speed. Plus, if any contaminant gets into it it will be a little easier to mess the delicate balance of the sourdough population, because your starter is "petite".

I guess it will be better to accept that sourdough comes with waste associated with keeping it, as Anne Burrell often says: "accept it and move on" smileys/wink.gif

 
! Here's the "new" starter at 12 and 24 hrs (pixs inside)..I'm thinking this is good-right?

What I don't know for sure is how to tell if down the road the rye again goes south with "mold" if it even is mold - will that mean the AP one is infected too? Or is it one of those things where, if it looks good it is good?

As it turns out I did a bigger refresh/feeding so had enough for 2 teaspoons of the salvaged rye. So I made one as AP Starter: 1 t starter and 100g KA AP flour/100g water and the other rye same as a big feeding before: 1 t starter and 32g water/44g rye flour - both so far so good --- I think anyhoo given I'm a newbie to starters.

However, this was my first look at an AP version and it gives visual cues (though nearly no smell at all) while the rye does have a nice smell.

All the fancy happened with the AP so here are pictures, y'all can confirm if it looks on target. The first two photos are at 12 hrs, 4am - yes for some reason I was awake so took these pictures:

12 hrs - Lumps:

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/IMG_2403_zps9c1cbfeb.jpg

12 hrs - Doubled in size since making it (pint? jar):

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/da68305a-c671-4411-90f6-91ffb2321ff9_zps792f369e.jpg

24 hrs - Bubbles and jiggly appearance like it might collapse upon moving:

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/IMG_2405_zpsa3f70023.jpg

24 hrs - Risen further up to top of neck:

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/d73bb307-f516-4476-8474-165f94bcc474_zps95464a0e.jpg

Didn't take a before of the rye since it basically looks the same, but this may be activation bubbles on the side of this jelly jar (it's also hard to press into jar so may not be all bubbles, but hadn't noticed this before):

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/4ebay_bucket/Food/82f14eac-0651-42d6-91e5-84026b844b2e_zpsa9ed8089.jpg

 
Not at all...these are really great learning experiences: Thank you!

and I'm not in any hurry to make bread (it seems like there is soooooo much to read! - I had no idea it was so complicated/hard.)

 
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