I hate to bring this up again, but starters - how do you maintain yours? I feel like a failure...

M

mariadnoca

Moderator
I'm just really discouraged, it seems like it shouldn't be this hard. I've got 3 starters going at rm temp right now, because I want to make sure one is good /active before I send it to the fridge (or even if I need to send it to the fridge - I haven't gotten that far).

The starter recovered from the mold issue (though last night it revisited the rye only one) and I now have 3 starters going in hopes to keep one alive and vibrant. One is rye only maintained as instructed with 72% hydration, but the AP ones (ok Ap with some rye)...not so great. When SallyBR gave me last chance instructions, the new AP version rose like a champ - ta da, but same feed next day? Nothing. So followed feeding instructions as if starting from near scratch posted here http://www.sourdough.com/blog/sourdom/beginners-blog-starter-scratch

I realized on day 4 it starts keeping a 100g/100g water/flour amount going (a lot for the pint jar). Once I hit that larger amount my starter was active and rose for the 2nd time in my life. The next day I cut those amounts in half to maintain a smaller amount going forward so it would fit in my jar (because when it rose it spilled over)...and then nothing the next day (yesterday). Again.

I've read maintaining info at breadtopia, KA, Freshloaf, and Tartine that I have checked out from the library right now.

Also the KA link says to feed 2 twice a day and the one I'd been following was a daily feeding...nobody can make up their mind, which would seem means it should be flexible and not this hard to do. I'm about ready to throw in the towel in frustration. It's noon (24 hrs was at midnight) and I still haven't fed it because lawd only knows what the heck would make it happy. I feel like AGAIN I'll need to start over as if it was day 1. Don't even know what to say.

So when you feed your starter how often do you do it, is it in the fridge, and how much starter do you use to how much water/flour? Do you wash/change jars each time - otherwise how do you keep track of how much starter you have exactly to begin with for the new feeding?

I've been feeding the "AP" starters once a day (I'm not too worried about the rye only one right now):

When it finally got active the 2nd time for me I gave it:

30g starter, 100g water, 70g KA AP flour, 30g organic stone ground rye,stir and leave for 24 hours

Then the next night, aka last night when it was back to near nothing:

about a tablespoon maybe a tad more considering goo on the spoon, with 50g water, 35g KA AP flour, 15g rye (I guess this is what I'll continue to do, though someone said I might try equal amounts of starter as well so, 50g/50g/50g starter/water/flour,but it seems like if I'm a hair off on the amount of starter I add to the mix it fails again. Shouldn't it be rising daily once it gets going?)

Also, for full disclosure, it should be noted the house has been cold due to a cold weather snap/heater thermostat issues, so I've kept the starters in the micro in hopes to keep it a bit warmer - I've zapped some rice pillows to add warmth (approx 75F) and shut the door. That being said I've mostly kept the house warmer than I'd normally keep it in winter during the day when I keep the heat on.

Why is this so hard?!

If people in covered wagons could do this why me, with a digital scale, steam distilled water, fancy flour and indoor plumbing - why can't I do this?!

 
oh no

This was supposed to be fun!

Before I switched to the rye starter I used an 80% AP starter that I would keep in the refrigerator for 2 weeks at a time. When I wanted to bake I would refresh it. After about 18-24 hours at room temp (or in my proofing box) I would take some out and use it to make a 100% AP for use in my bread. What didn't go into the 100% starter went into the refrigerator for another 2 weeks.

I'm really sorry you are having such a hard time. Have you baked yet?

 
I suggest reading the Breadbaker's Apprentice and

Peter Reinhart's bread book on whole grains. He has a lot of starters, and explanations of them. It REALLY explains it--as his blog or website may also. When I took his class, he weighed it out (of course). He also explains how starch becomes sugar to feed the starter. Wonderful stuff to learn from.

 
Maria, you might be making it too complicated. Try equal parts BY WIEIGHT of starter, water and

flour. 8 oz. of each should give you enough for a rise. You might have to throw some out each time but flour is cheap. (Mine goes in the compost.)

I've never tried rye, of course, but I've used both whole wheat and white flours with equal success.

 
Joe is right.

Things don't have to be perfect. Good enough is good enough. Take some good bubbly starter, even if it's only 1 day old, and use it in a recipe.

 
But it's not bubbly - when I get it very active, the next day after a refresh,it's not active at all

This is what is so confusing to me, it takes me a week or so to get it active (it's only happened twice now), but when I refresh that - zero activity and it takes a week or more (refreshing daily) to get it going again.

Shouldn't it stay active and rise/fall every day if I'm refreshing every day once it's become active?

 
When you refresh it are you adding starting over with equal amounts of starter, water, flour

or are you adding more water and flour to a large jar of starter?

 
Starting over with a clean jar each time....

I followed the directions at the link for several days.

At one point (day 4-5ish?) I upped the starter amount because my house was kinda of cold to:

"Discard most of the starter, leave about a tablespoon in the jar (changed to 30g)
Add 100g water, 70g white flour, 30g rye
stir and leave for 24 hours"

This got a full rise, but exploded out of the jar so the next feeding I cut the amounts back to

a scant tablespoon with 50g water, 35g white flour, 15g rye (same ratio)

and got zero activity at 12 and 24 hrs.

====

I now have 4 starters.

LOL

After being pissed and skipping an entire day of feeding, I refreshed the rye only starter because of the "mold" (I'd planned to refresh weekly on Sunday), which smelled great and had clearly at some point been active. I made an entirely new starter with 50g rye only starter/50g water/35g AP and 15 rye flour. I refreshed 1 AP starter: 50g starter/50g water/35g AP and 15 rye flour and the other AP with 1 T starter/50g water/35g AP and 15 rye flour as before.

(All my AP flour is KA unbleached)

I warmed the water a bit 75ishF and I warmed the micro and stashed them in there given it's chilly overnight in the house (55F).

Film at 11.

http://www.sourdough.com/blog/sourdom/beginners-blog-starter-scratch

 
I wish I could help.

I feel responsible for getting you into this mess.

Couldn't you use the rye starter to make an AP starter then make a Tartine basic dough. It would be nice to have some bread given all the effort you have put into this project.

 
Not to worry, one needs to learn these things - I'm just in a learning curve. Got activity -but...

I got some good activity today in all the starters aka science projects I have going (especially from the AP one made from the all rye), the challenge is how to get it consistently. And why if I get good activity one day, why don't I get it the next if I did the same ratio refresh?

This does not compute.

 
I don't understand either

Until I changed to the stiff rye starter I kept an 80% hydration starter made with AP in the refrigerator until I needed to wake it up to use it. If I was going to keep it on the counter longer than 18-24 hours I would refresh it at 12-18 hours. I guess I have been fortunate because I have been much less diligent than you and haven't had any problems with the AP starter. Maybe your northern CA organisms are fussier than what grows here in OK.

 
Maria, I've had the same problem and I have no answer for you. But here's what I did:

I gave up the whole sourdough project and tried baking bread with a biga instead. It's much easier, works every time and does wonders for my bread baking self esteem smileys/wink.gif

 
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