ISO: iso charlie--bet U thought U were done w/ me & the Blk Bottom Pie REC @ 11617, but au contraire!

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wigs

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I made your pie two week ago with total success--delicious and I thank you for the recipe! Then on August 15 I made 2 more pies, and the caramel layer bombed. I assume it crystallized on me(?)--it came out like a thick butter sauce and was grainy. I cannot find any resource that describes caramel coming out like that and then telling a cook what to do to avoid it.

So now I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong as it "felt" like I did everything the same way I had originally. I did make a double batch of the caramel layer on 8/15 as opposed to a single batch for my first successful caramel pie layer. Would that have made a difference?

I have looked through all my cookbooks as well as Googled 'caramel' on the Internet. Unfortunately, there is more written about the "dry" method of caramel making than the "wet" method, and it's the latter I need help with and hints for. (I did read that the 'wet' method is easier with a higher success rate so it is the suggested one for novices--that did NOTHING to help my ego. LOL!)

Can you give me a lesson, charlie? Or any of you other caramelizers out there?

I know it's important not to stir the sugar & water after boiling. I did wash down the sides of the pan a couple times with a wet pastry brush, but I never swirled the pan. I also did those same things with my first pie which came out fine so am perplexed. Obviously, something I did was different on 8/15, but WHAT?

Some authors advise using a candy thermometer; others say to avoid using one as it can introduce/encourage the formation of crystals.

If there is already verbiage in some old thread about this topic, please point me to it as I haven't run across any details regarding the process in the FK archives, unless I overlooked them. TIA!

wigs PS: These were the very first and second times I've ever attempted caramel making so am a real rookie at this.

 
Hi Wigs--was the caramel smooth before you added the cream and butter? more.

The crystalization only happens at the stage before caramelization occurs. Once it starts to turn color you can stir it.

There could have been an errant sugar crytal in the pot before you began that caused the problem.

I never found it difficult to get a nice caramel using the dry method. You just have to keep with it and keep stirring--add a drop or two of lemon juice. When you have a nice color, add the cream and butter. You can give that a try at any time and then just warm it to the right consistency when you need it.

Hope this helps.

 
I do remember noticing on my 2nd botched attempt that there was a thin 'crust' on top of

my cooked sugar & water mixture when I added the cream and began stirring it in. Hmmm, I'm thinking that was the probable sign that things had crystallized--would that be an accurate assumption? I don't remember any such 'scale' on top of my first batch of caramel.

Now if I use the "dry" method, I should cook the 1 cup sugar until it turns dark amber. Then would the 1/3 cup water in the recipe be added along with the 1/2 cup + 1 Tbsp cream? Then the butter would be stirred in?

Thanks for the major hint about when to stir and when not to stir, charlie==>

Going from the pie recipe directions, I did stir while the sugar was dissolving in the water over low heat, but then I did not stir after turning up the heat to caramelize the mixture. I know I stirred while the sugar was dissolving in the water so maybe I stirred longer than I ought to have.

Then the recipe says to turn up the heat and boil--does that mean it's okay to flip to high heat, or should you just go to medium and wait patiently until things begin to bubble? With my 2nd batch, I know I used high heat because I had made a double batch, and I wanted to finish the 2 pies before the sun came up.

Very interesting about David Lebovitz's advice from Gay's recommended article that the dry method is safer, i.e., less temperamental. I know I read the opposite someplace else. Oh, well.

Gay, thanks for the article on David Lebovitz. You reminded me that he was a co-author in THE BAKER'S DOZEN COOKBOOK, and sure enough, he wrote out a more detailed explanation of the 'wet' method on page 338. Right off the top I went wrong as I put the sugar in my pan first and then added the water, and he says to always add the water before putting in the sugar.

And your lemon juice hint is superb, charlie! I simply thought lemon juice appeared in some caramel recipes for its flavor, but now I realize it's an interfering agent to help prevent crystalline molecules from linking together. Ah, the science of it all! This I just happened across in COOKING A TO Z--Jane Horn, Editor.

I'm so glad to finally have learned some details from FinerKitchens on both the 'wet' method as well as the 'dry' method explained in the David Lebovitz article Gay pointed me to.

Thanks so much for all your help, Charlie & Gay! Charlie, I had no idea that a single sugar crystal in a "clean" pan could wreak havoc so I'll be sure to do a better scrubbing job before my next attempt.

 
wigs, So glad that you felt the article was helpful. Lots of luck on your next batch!

 
I trust Lebovitz's knowledge, but I've seen Gale Gand on numerous occasions...

put the sugar in first and then pour the water around the edges of the pan; she'd then make an X in the sugar with her finger so that all of the sugar is wet.

I just let it cook (med-high heat) till I see a little caramelization (like in the article) around the edge, then swirl the pan.

To test the color more easily you can dip a spoon in and drizzle some caramel onto a white plate. It's awfully difficult to tell the color while in the pan.

I thought the bit about waiting for it to smoke was great. I agree that a deep color is what you should look for---but it gets a little scarry.

Oh, always have a whisk handy well you pour any liquid into got caramel; it will help with boil-overs.

 
Have printed all yr hints + Lebovitz's article & will give the Blk Bottom pie another

whirl in the not-too-distant future.

I am realizing I probably stirred the sugar & water far too long over low heat in an effort to make certain all the sugar was dissolved. Recipe said to do that, but I probably overdid it, not realizing the heat had started the cooking process so I should have QUIT stirring until after the caramelizing had begun.

Thanks for your info on Gale Gand's technique. I realize now that my first successful caramel layer was nothing more than dumb luck. LOL! I'll embark on my 3rd attempt with much more knowledge which should drastically increase my success rate. Really appreciate all your help!

 
Wigs, glancing at the recipe, I would say if you try the "dry" method, do NOT add 1/3 cup water

afterwards. That water is just to dissolve the sugar and it all boils off. The dry method eliminates the need for the water.

I use the wet method for caramel, and I find it helps to use purified water. It's also important that the pan be absolutely clean. Also, I use Julia's trick of leaving the lid on the pot while it boils--the steam washes down the sides of the pan. Once it thickens a bit it doesn't splash as much and you can take the lid off to finish the boiling. I keep a brush with water handy too.

When you add cream to the caramel it hardens, and has to be stirred until it dissolves again. I wonder if perhaps, with a double recipe, you didn't get it dissolved again all the way?

 
Thanks for the tip, Joe. I hadn't realized the extra water would evaporate; I thought

it was in the recipe to make a runnier caramel sauce. Now I will know to leave it OUT whenever I try using the "dry" method. This site is great! I am continuing to learn about this process from all the fine cooks at FK. As soon as I have need to whip up another one of Charlie's Black Bottom pies, I will give this another whirl. wigs

 
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