Question about flour in frosting/icing - made some for the first time on Friday

L

lisainla

Well-known member
and I loved the flavor - not too sweet. The consistency ended up being too thin, and I added some additional confectioner's sugar to stiffen it up some. If I use it again I will cut the milk/flour mixture by a third. I used half butter and half cream cheese.

My question - once the milk and flour mixture were cooked, the texture was similar to heavy cream. Any reason I couldn't sub cream for the milk/flour? Or is there something necessary in that combo that subbing will not accomplish?

The reason I'd like to sub is that even through I stirred the mixture as it cooled, it still ended up with some tiny lumps in it, which you could detect in the otherwise silky frosting.

For frosting

1 cup milk

3 tablespoons all-purpose flour

2 sticks (1 cup) unsalted butter or 1 stick unsalted butter and 8 ounces cream cheese

1 cup confectioners' sugar

1 teaspoon vanilla

5. Make frosting:

In a small saucepan stir together milk and flour and cook, stirring constantly, over low heat until thick. Cool milk mixture. In a large bowl with an electric mixer beat together butter, cream cheese, sugar, and vanilla until blended well. Add cool milk mixture and beat until spreadable.

From the Softasilk Flour Red Velvet Cake recipe

 
The classic recipe calls for 5 tablespoons of flour & cools to a very thick paste.

I think it is your recipe. Try it without the cream cheese too. It is very good.

 
Yes the flour is very important. Why would you cut the mixture???

Yes, there is something important in the flour/milk mixture.

 
The flour here is what is olding it all together. You don't want to cut the flour. . .

or your flour-milk mixture turns out too thin. 3 tablespoons flour is not enough; try your recipe but use 5 tablespoons of flour like Melissa Dallas mentions above. Think of this thick, thick "pudding" as the scaffold upon which you build the frosting. It allows you to add less sugar to bind and hold the frosting together and allows for a creamy texture without too much added sugar.

Whisk in the flour into COLD milk , making sure all lumps are gone BEFORE you start to cook; if lumps are still there, run the milk/flour mix through a sieve BEFORE cooking. With this thick mixture you can certainly use half butter and half cream cheese.

Again, if your cooked mixture was too runny, you cannot build the frosting upon it. Runny milk-paste/pudding equals runny frosting

This flour-paste type frosting is really good when made correctly. It stays soft, glossy and nice looking on the cake.

 
I always use cream when making a buttercream (the non-egg white kind)

and love the decadence of it. You may want to try it next time (so butter, cream cheese, confectioner's sugar and heavy cream) and see if you like it as much as the cooked version. I don't have measurements, I'm sorry.

 
Lisa, my cooked mixture ends up thicker than "cream." I wonder if

that is why your icing was thinner. The finished icing ends up thick enough that you can put it in a pastry bag with a tip and decorate cleanly. And the lumpiness is always an issue. You might want to push it through a fine strainer or try a stick blender.

made with Crisco, this icing can sit outside all day.

 
Here are some old PB photos that got Munchkinized somehow. Shows the process

Sorry the images are so bad. When Photobucket shrunk them, they saved the quality at the reduced size. So increasing the image size loses fidelity.

Cooking the flour in a double boiler:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/Finer_Kitchens/thDSC011711.jpg~original

Adding the finished cooked flour (note how thick it is) to the beaten sugar mix:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/Finer_Kitchens/thDSC011741.jpg~original

Beating the dickens out of it:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/Finer_Kitchens/thDSC011731.jpg~original

Finished:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/Finer_Kitchens/thDSC011751.jpg~original

I even had one where I piped a message with this icing, but can't find that out in PB. These were taken in 2007.

 
I was going to cut it back to 2/3 c milk + 2 tbs flour so I didn't have the same volume

added to the cream cheese/butter/sugar so it wouldn't thin it so much. The final product was very loose, like runny yogurt or sour cream. That's why I ended up adding more sugar, to try to firm it.

 
The cream by itself as opposed to the cooked milk/flour wouldn't be lumpy.

Since flour is an integral part of this recipe, I would get a different result.

The problem with me experimenting with this frosting is that it is actually one that I really like - as it is not as sweet as most frosting I have made in the past. Soooo - I end up "sampling" it far more than when I make others - I now understand people who tell me they can just eat the frosting of something off a spoon by itself. smileys/smile.gif

 
Thank you mistral - I will try it with additional flour. The lumps came from the skin that

tends to form atop cooked dairy, I did not stir it constantly as it cooled. I will definitely push it through a sieve the next time to get rid of any lumps.

 
I will try that as well - I had never made flour based frosting before, so I usually do the liquid

addition by eye as I go. As I was adding the cooked milk mixture, I knew it was going to be too thin, but thought maybe it would firm up later as it mixed or chilled - some kind of kitchen chemistry I had never experienced before. I need to follow my instincts more... smileys/bigsmile.gif

 
Lisa, I would stick with milk and cook longer before trying it with cream/flour

Only because milk has protein and heavy cream does not (or at least I don't think it does). So there would be more gluten structure with the milk/flour combo than a heavy cream/flour combo.

Again, this is PURE SPECULATION.

(okay, the anal me had to look this up: 1 cup of heavy cream has 44 grams of fat and 2 of protein. 1 cup of whole milk has 8 grams of fat and 8 grams of protein.)

 
Oops - I'm not sure I was clear

I didn't mean to substitute the cream for milk - I mean to say that when I make a non-cooked buttercream I always use heavy cream (not milk). Sorry if I caused confusion.

 
Yes, I did mean subbing cream by itself in place of the milk + flour

That is interesting about the difference in protein. Cream has lower carb than milk as well,

 
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