cynupstateny
Well-known member
(150 years strong!) and I've been experimenting. I really don't want to use yeast and would like to do a long slow rise. Just took the starter out to make a sponge for tomorrow evening's bread.
Anyone have any good sourdough recipes? Nephew gave me some of his starter
- Thread starter cynupstateny
- Start date
steve2-in-la
Well-known member
I had great success with No-Knead Sourdough recipes and Joe has a Sourdough Rye that rocks. Joe?
(If you've never worked with sourdough before, be careful of mixing it in a stainless steel bowl or using metal utensils. They can negatively impact the flavor and rising properties of your dough. Good luck!)
No Knead Sourdough
1 cup (5 oz) WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR
2 ½ cups (11 oz) WHITE BREAD FLOUR
1 ½ tsp SALT
1 ½ cups PURIFIED WATER
¼ cup STARTER*
In a large bowl combine flour, starter and salt. Add water, stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic. Let rest at least 18 hours, at warm room temperature, about 70º F.
Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.
Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down in a 6-8 qt casserole. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.
Bake the bread** at 500° for 30 minutes with the lid on and then remove the lid and continue baking for 15 more minutes at 450°.
Generally speaking, the wetter your dough the bigger the holes will be, which many people really like. However, a drier dough will make it easier to get the bread to rise while baking, giving you greater “oven spring” and a more spherical loaf versus a pancake.
*To make the bread more sour use just 1/8 cup of sourdough starter and extend the fermentation time by refrigerating the dough.
**To obtain better oven spring, place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450º F, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes. You will never knead a better sourdough!
Another adaptation to the New York Times No-Knead Bread recipe for sourdough
2 ½ cups SOURDOUGH STARTER
3 cups HIGH-GLUTEN FLOUR
2 Tbsp SALT
Mix ingredients together just until you have a smooth, lump-free dough. Place in a floured proofing basket. Place that into a puffed plastic bag. Close the bag making sure it's full of enough air that the rising dough won't stick to the plastic. Let rest at room temperature until doubled in bulk (about 5 hours) place in the fridge overnight (12 hours).
Pre-heat oven to 500º F WITH DUTCH OVEN INSIDE, at least 45 minutes. Take Dutch oven out of the oven carefully, remove lid and place a piece of parchment paper at the bottom (best to have measured this first) Pour out the dough and quickly close the lid and return everything to the oven.
Bake at highest temp for 30 minutes then remove lid. The bread should be puffed and cracked at the top. Reduce heat to 400º F. Another 15-30 minutes then, take out of the oven and place on a rack o cool.
(If you've never worked with sourdough before, be careful of mixing it in a stainless steel bowl or using metal utensils. They can negatively impact the flavor and rising properties of your dough. Good luck!)
No Knead Sourdough
1 cup (5 oz) WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR
2 ½ cups (11 oz) WHITE BREAD FLOUR
1 ½ tsp SALT
1 ½ cups PURIFIED WATER
¼ cup STARTER*
In a large bowl combine flour, starter and salt. Add water, stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic. Let rest at least 18 hours, at warm room temperature, about 70º F.
Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.
Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down in a 6-8 qt casserole. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.
Bake the bread** at 500° for 30 minutes with the lid on and then remove the lid and continue baking for 15 more minutes at 450°.
Generally speaking, the wetter your dough the bigger the holes will be, which many people really like. However, a drier dough will make it easier to get the bread to rise while baking, giving you greater “oven spring” and a more spherical loaf versus a pancake.
*To make the bread more sour use just 1/8 cup of sourdough starter and extend the fermentation time by refrigerating the dough.
**To obtain better oven spring, place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450º F, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes. You will never knead a better sourdough!
Another adaptation to the New York Times No-Knead Bread recipe for sourdough
2 ½ cups SOURDOUGH STARTER
3 cups HIGH-GLUTEN FLOUR
2 Tbsp SALT
Mix ingredients together just until you have a smooth, lump-free dough. Place in a floured proofing basket. Place that into a puffed plastic bag. Close the bag making sure it's full of enough air that the rising dough won't stick to the plastic. Let rest at room temperature until doubled in bulk (about 5 hours) place in the fridge overnight (12 hours).
Pre-heat oven to 500º F WITH DUTCH OVEN INSIDE, at least 45 minutes. Take Dutch oven out of the oven carefully, remove lid and place a piece of parchment paper at the bottom (best to have measured this first) Pour out the dough and quickly close the lid and return everything to the oven.
Bake at highest temp for 30 minutes then remove lid. The bread should be puffed and cracked at the top. Reduce heat to 400º F. Another 15-30 minutes then, take out of the oven and place on a rack o cool.
One of my favorites....
.... Vermont Sourdough with Whole Wheat...
http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2009/07/27/the-bread-we-love/
http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2009/07/27/the-bread-we-love/
.... Vermont Sourdough with Whole Wheat...
http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2009/07/27/the-bread-we-love/
http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2009/07/27/the-bread-we-love/
heather_in_sf
Well-known member
I have a great pancake recipe at home that uses sourdough starter, if you're interested....
G
Guest
Guest
Here's the one I use most often for a round loaf, focacia or pizza dough
BASIC COUNTRY DOUGH
(adapted from Chad Robertson’s Tartine Bread and bewitchingkitchen.com)
For the dough starter:
25g whole wheat flour
25g AP flour
50g water at approximately 80F
8g active sourdough starter
For the dough:
the starter from the above recipe
375g water at approximately 80F (divided in 350g + 25g)
400g AP flour for a loaf or bread flour for focaccia or pizza dough
100g whole wheat flour
10g salt
Revive your sourdough starter about 48 hours before you want to make focaccia or pizza dough or about 60 hours before you want to make a loaf.
To make the dough starter, put the 50g of water in a large glass or plastic bowl. Add the 8g of active sourdough starter and mix well with a plastic or wooden spoon. When the starter is dissolved, add the whole wheat and white flour and mix well. Cover and keep at warm room temperature overnight.
To make the dough add 350g of warm water to the starter. Stir to dissolve. Add both types of flour, mix until all the flour is wet. I use a wet hand (non-powdered latex gloves are useful) for the final mixing. Don’t be afraid to add a little extra water. Let the dough rest for 25 to 40 minutes.
Add the salt and the rest of the water (25g), and incorporate by pressing the dough with your fingers. Fold the dough several times, until it forms a homogeneous mass. Stretch and fold in the bowl, about every 30 minutes, for the first two hours (you will be making 4 series of folds during this period). After the last folding cycle, let the dough rest undisturbed for another full hour, for a total of 3 hours of “bulk fermentation.”
To make focaccia:
Pick up the dough with wet or lightly oiled hands and shape it into a ball by pulling the sides under and down several times and pinch the bottom closed. Return the ball to the bowl, bottom down. Let it rise for 3-4 hours at room temperature. Preheat your oven to 450F. Heavily oil a sheet pan and push the dough out of the bowl onto it, keeping the bottom down. It is important to use lots of oil and handle the dough carefully to preserve the bubbles
Stretch the dough by sticking your oiled fingers deeply into it and stretching them apart, no patting or pushing down on the dough. You can gently lift and stretch the corners. This not only gets the dough into the corners it helps get the oil back under the dough. The dough should fill the pan. Bake until deeply golden, about 20 minutes. After the focaccia has cooled in the pan for 10 minutes remove it to a cooling rack. Let cool before cutting.
To make pizza dough (makes three 12 inch round pizzas):
Lightly oil a piece of parchment paper, a sheet pan, or other surface (I use the lid to my bowl). After the 3 hour bulk ferment, divide the dough into 3 pieces (about 330 grams each). Form each into a ball as described above, place on the oiled surface and cover. Let rise for 3-4 hours at room temperature. Place a pizza stone on the bottom rack of your oven and about 30 minutes before you start shaping your dough preheat your oven as high as it will go.
To shape the pizzas put a lot of flour onto a piece of parchment and a lot of flour on the dough ball. Gently transfer the dough ball to the parchment and turn it over and use more flour as necessary to prevent sticking. Since you are starting with a wet dough and you are only flouring the outside the extra flour is not a problem. Gently flatten the ball by pressing the center down. Try to avoid pressing the edges so you can get those big bubbles in the crust. Once the center is flattened partially lift the dough off of the surface of the parchment by carefully picking it up just inside the thick edge and lifting it enough to let gravity stretch the dough. You can also use two hands near the edge and stretch the perimeter of the dough. Go slowly and don't worry about ending round - that will come later as will the confidence to stretch on the back of your hands. If the dough starts to stick leave the stuck part down and stretch and press gently from there by lifting the non-stuck portions and stretching it outward. A little gentle pressing on the thicker areas in the center is OK at this point. Stop sooner rather than later to avoid holes. Brush any loose flour away and slide your peel under the parchment. Top your pizza as desired but lightly, heavy toppings can overwhelm the hot stone in home ovens. Place the pizza and parchment on the hot stone. After a few minutes, when the pizza looks about half cooked, slide the peel between the pizza and the parchment, lift the pizza and pull the parchment out. I rotate my pizza before putting it back down. Let the top get quite well done before removing the pie from the oven onto a rack to cool slightly.
To make a round loaf:
After the 3 hour bulk ferment, remove the dough from the bowl and shape it gently into a ball, as described above. Let it rest for 20 minutes. While it is resting, prepare your banneton (or any round container) by lining it with a pastry cloth and rubbing it with flour. Pick up your dough, fold the sides under again, and place the dough inside your banneton or bowl with the seam-side up. Cover and refrigerate overnight. Remove from the refrigerator about an hour before baking. Twenty minutes before baking time, preheat the oven to 450F.
Bake in a cloache, if you have one, otherwise, cut a piece of parchment paper that will completely cover a pie plate and place it on top of the banneton containing the bread dough. Carefully invert the banneton over the parchment paper, using the pie plate to support the dough. Score the bread, and place the pie pan over baking tiles in the pre-heated oven. Cover with roaster top wet with hot water. Bake for about 45 minutes, covered during the first 20 minutes, remove the cover for the final 25 minutes.
BASIC COUNTRY DOUGH
(adapted from Chad Robertson’s Tartine Bread and bewitchingkitchen.com)
For the dough starter:
25g whole wheat flour
25g AP flour
50g water at approximately 80F
8g active sourdough starter
For the dough:
the starter from the above recipe
375g water at approximately 80F (divided in 350g + 25g)
400g AP flour for a loaf or bread flour for focaccia or pizza dough
100g whole wheat flour
10g salt
Revive your sourdough starter about 48 hours before you want to make focaccia or pizza dough or about 60 hours before you want to make a loaf.
To make the dough starter, put the 50g of water in a large glass or plastic bowl. Add the 8g of active sourdough starter and mix well with a plastic or wooden spoon. When the starter is dissolved, add the whole wheat and white flour and mix well. Cover and keep at warm room temperature overnight.
To make the dough add 350g of warm water to the starter. Stir to dissolve. Add both types of flour, mix until all the flour is wet. I use a wet hand (non-powdered latex gloves are useful) for the final mixing. Don’t be afraid to add a little extra water. Let the dough rest for 25 to 40 minutes.
Add the salt and the rest of the water (25g), and incorporate by pressing the dough with your fingers. Fold the dough several times, until it forms a homogeneous mass. Stretch and fold in the bowl, about every 30 minutes, for the first two hours (you will be making 4 series of folds during this period). After the last folding cycle, let the dough rest undisturbed for another full hour, for a total of 3 hours of “bulk fermentation.”
To make focaccia:
Pick up the dough with wet or lightly oiled hands and shape it into a ball by pulling the sides under and down several times and pinch the bottom closed. Return the ball to the bowl, bottom down. Let it rise for 3-4 hours at room temperature. Preheat your oven to 450F. Heavily oil a sheet pan and push the dough out of the bowl onto it, keeping the bottom down. It is important to use lots of oil and handle the dough carefully to preserve the bubbles
Stretch the dough by sticking your oiled fingers deeply into it and stretching them apart, no patting or pushing down on the dough. You can gently lift and stretch the corners. This not only gets the dough into the corners it helps get the oil back under the dough. The dough should fill the pan. Bake until deeply golden, about 20 minutes. After the focaccia has cooled in the pan for 10 minutes remove it to a cooling rack. Let cool before cutting.
To make pizza dough (makes three 12 inch round pizzas):
Lightly oil a piece of parchment paper, a sheet pan, or other surface (I use the lid to my bowl). After the 3 hour bulk ferment, divide the dough into 3 pieces (about 330 grams each). Form each into a ball as described above, place on the oiled surface and cover. Let rise for 3-4 hours at room temperature. Place a pizza stone on the bottom rack of your oven and about 30 minutes before you start shaping your dough preheat your oven as high as it will go.
To shape the pizzas put a lot of flour onto a piece of parchment and a lot of flour on the dough ball. Gently transfer the dough ball to the parchment and turn it over and use more flour as necessary to prevent sticking. Since you are starting with a wet dough and you are only flouring the outside the extra flour is not a problem. Gently flatten the ball by pressing the center down. Try to avoid pressing the edges so you can get those big bubbles in the crust. Once the center is flattened partially lift the dough off of the surface of the parchment by carefully picking it up just inside the thick edge and lifting it enough to let gravity stretch the dough. You can also use two hands near the edge and stretch the perimeter of the dough. Go slowly and don't worry about ending round - that will come later as will the confidence to stretch on the back of your hands. If the dough starts to stick leave the stuck part down and stretch and press gently from there by lifting the non-stuck portions and stretching it outward. A little gentle pressing on the thicker areas in the center is OK at this point. Stop sooner rather than later to avoid holes. Brush any loose flour away and slide your peel under the parchment. Top your pizza as desired but lightly, heavy toppings can overwhelm the hot stone in home ovens. Place the pizza and parchment on the hot stone. After a few minutes, when the pizza looks about half cooked, slide the peel between the pizza and the parchment, lift the pizza and pull the parchment out. I rotate my pizza before putting it back down. Let the top get quite well done before removing the pie from the oven onto a rack to cool slightly.
To make a round loaf:
After the 3 hour bulk ferment, remove the dough from the bowl and shape it gently into a ball, as described above. Let it rest for 20 minutes. While it is resting, prepare your banneton (or any round container) by lining it with a pastry cloth and rubbing it with flour. Pick up your dough, fold the sides under again, and place the dough inside your banneton or bowl with the seam-side up. Cover and refrigerate overnight. Remove from the refrigerator about an hour before baking. Twenty minutes before baking time, preheat the oven to 450F.
Bake in a cloache, if you have one, otherwise, cut a piece of parchment paper that will completely cover a pie plate and place it on top of the banneton containing the bread dough. Carefully invert the banneton over the parchment paper, using the pie plate to support the dough. Score the bread, and place the pie pan over baking tiles in the pre-heated oven. Cover with roaster top wet with hot water. Bake for about 45 minutes, covered during the first 20 minutes, remove the cover for the final 25 minutes.
Here it is. Steve originally suggested I look into sourdough rye but he had an ulterior motive.
Now if he invites me to his house it is understood that I bring this. With the caraway seeds it is a classic rustic deli rye, and without them it can pass for a French "pain levain." Like all sourdough bread it freezes well.
http://eat.at/swap/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=1&msgid=83455
Now if he invites me to his house it is understood that I bring this. With the caraway seeds it is a classic rustic deli rye, and without them it can pass for a French "pain levain." Like all sourdough bread it freezes well.
http://eat.at/swap/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=1&msgid=83455
cynupstateny
Well-known member
Saw Steve's post first and immediately started on it. Going to try them all! Thanks!
steve2-in-la
Well-known member
Here's a picture of the rye-loaf I made using Joe's starter and recipe. Seriously fit t'eat.
steve2-in-la
Well-known member
And he's right. It freezes really well but stays fresh on the counter for almost a week. It was
interesting to read (and see for myself) that sourdough doesn't need to be covered when left at room temperature. Also, you shouldn't cut it for up to a day as it continues to set as it cools. Cut it too soon and it'll compress and be a little sticky
It stays fresh and moist for a surprising amount of time. At least until you can slam down its sourdough goodness slathered with plenty of Plugra!
interesting to read (and see for myself) that sourdough doesn't need to be covered when left at room temperature. Also, you shouldn't cut it for up to a day as it continues to set as it cools. Cut it too soon and it'll compress and be a little sticky
It stays fresh and moist for a surprising amount of time. At least until you can slam down its sourdough goodness slathered with plenty of Plugra!
G
Guest
Guest
Is there rye flour in this starter?
While the original link to the Utah Hillel rye was broken, I googled it and got some information but could not figure out if there was rye flour in the starter.
While the original link to the Utah Hillel rye was broken, I googled it and got some information but could not figure out if there was rye flour in the starter.
mariadnoca
Moderator
Can we have a side conversation about Sourdough to help me understand this?
This is a timely question because just last week I was trying to figure out exactly what has happened to sourdough and if there is a way to get the sourdough of my childhood again.
And I say this as someone who has feared bread baking and never tried it, so knows basically nothing.
Back in the day SF was known for sourdough, you couldn't get it other places, but it definitely tasted different than now. I've tried La Brea, Boudin, and one of the latest favorites around these parts Acme just last week. But none is the same flavor I remember, so I've toyed with the idea of facing my fear and trying to bake some. If I can find a starter, (or I make my own?) and I'm guessing I need an old school SF starter at that. One that uses the indigenous SF airborne flora to get the taste I'm looking for, not a powdered one, but I have no idea how to go about this (one would think somebody has a stash of old school starter someplace - I've read of rumors)...so basically my question is, "am I insane or does this sound doable?"
This is a timely question because just last week I was trying to figure out exactly what has happened to sourdough and if there is a way to get the sourdough of my childhood again.
And I say this as someone who has feared bread baking and never tried it, so knows basically nothing.
Back in the day SF was known for sourdough, you couldn't get it other places, but it definitely tasted different than now. I've tried La Brea, Boudin, and one of the latest favorites around these parts Acme just last week. But none is the same flavor I remember, so I've toyed with the idea of facing my fear and trying to bake some. If I can find a starter, (or I make my own?) and I'm guessing I need an old school SF starter at that. One that uses the indigenous SF airborne flora to get the taste I'm looking for, not a powdered one, but I have no idea how to go about this (one would think somebody has a stash of old school starter someplace - I've read of rumors)...so basically my question is, "am I insane or does this sound doable?"
You can buy SF sourdough starter, the "real one"...
from many sources online.
What will happen, though, is that the first couple of loaves will be very similar to the SF sourdough, but after that your starter will change, getting populated by bacteria and yeast from where you live. It is basically impossible to keep a sourdough "pristine" once you move it around. Unless, of course, you would be doing all your refreshments under the confines of a lab, sterile environment, all glassware sterilized etc etc.
The bottom line is that if you really want a San Francisco type sourdough, your best option is to go there smileys/wink.gif Other than that, you can bake excellent sourdough bread that might start very similar and then slowly change to be your own unique mixture.
another thing you could conceivably do is buy the SF sourdough, refresh it in a large volume, then aliquot it right away in small, say 1 TBSp portions. Freeze it. When you want to bake another batch, go from that one and refresh it a couple of times. It will still change, but at each baking it will change less than if you keep refreshing the sourdough over and over and over, therefore 'diluting' the initial composition at each refreshment.
Makes sense?
from many sources online.
What will happen, though, is that the first couple of loaves will be very similar to the SF sourdough, but after that your starter will change, getting populated by bacteria and yeast from where you live. It is basically impossible to keep a sourdough "pristine" once you move it around. Unless, of course, you would be doing all your refreshments under the confines of a lab, sterile environment, all glassware sterilized etc etc.
The bottom line is that if you really want a San Francisco type sourdough, your best option is to go there smileys/wink.gif Other than that, you can bake excellent sourdough bread that might start very similar and then slowly change to be your own unique mixture.
another thing you could conceivably do is buy the SF sourdough, refresh it in a large volume, then aliquot it right away in small, say 1 TBSp portions. Freeze it. When you want to bake another batch, go from that one and refresh it a couple of times. It will still change, but at each baking it will change less than if you keep refreshing the sourdough over and over and over, therefore 'diluting' the initial composition at each refreshment.
Makes sense?
steve2-in-la
Well-known member
Chlorinated water definitely damages a sourdough culture. I use bottled water for sourdough.
steve2-in-la
Well-known member
Whether you're insane or not is between you and your health care provider. Sourdough, on the other
hand, is a different matter. First, the term "sourdough" does not necessarily guarantee a "sour" flavored bread. It refers to the use of a natural bacteria cultured leavener. Some are sour, some are not sour at all. Depends on where the culture originated and how it transformed over time.
Nothing is quite as evocative as a flavor or smell so, it's difficult for someone else to say what the sourdough of your youth tasted like. Sally is right however, a sourdough culture is a living, entity and will change over time, based on your local bacteria, storage techniques etc. I've mentioned I have three cultures and while I store them in separate, sealed glass containers, over time, they've begun to act quite similarly, indicating to me, they are taking on each other's features.
hand, is a different matter. First, the term "sourdough" does not necessarily guarantee a "sour" flavored bread. It refers to the use of a natural bacteria cultured leavener. Some are sour, some are not sour at all. Depends on where the culture originated and how it transformed over time.
Nothing is quite as evocative as a flavor or smell so, it's difficult for someone else to say what the sourdough of your youth tasted like. Sally is right however, a sourdough culture is a living, entity and will change over time, based on your local bacteria, storage techniques etc. I've mentioned I have three cultures and while I store them in separate, sealed glass containers, over time, they've begun to act quite similarly, indicating to me, they are taking on each other's features.
heather_in_sf
Well-known member
Funny thing is, sourdough made in SF has different flavors too,
I worked with a baker during The Great Unemployment and his sourdough was different in flavor from Acme, Boudin and some of the other commercial ones - we did a taste test and it was interesting. Microbes vary from neighborhood to neighborhood! He gave me some his starter and after a while my bread tasted differently from his. Still authentic SF sourdough, just from a different part of town. I wonder if Anchor Brewery will notice a difference in the flavor of their beer now that they are adding a new location near the ballpark?
fascinating....
I worked with a baker during The Great Unemployment and his sourdough was different in flavor from Acme, Boudin and some of the other commercial ones - we did a taste test and it was interesting. Microbes vary from neighborhood to neighborhood! He gave me some his starter and after a while my bread tasted differently from his. Still authentic SF sourdough, just from a different part of town. I wonder if Anchor Brewery will notice a difference in the flavor of their beer now that they are adding a new location near the ballpark?
fascinating....