FRC: I found this very interesting, the incident has been discussed on several blogs, many

"Take what ya can...and don't give anything back!". The pirates are sounding like...

...sages when you deal with the powers of this world.

Michael

 
This reminds me of the time when a HUGE recipe site...

...threatened me with a $150,000 lawsuit for infringing on the "copyright" of one of their Christmas cookie recipes.

I have to admit here, publicly, that way back in the beginning of my online Christmas cookie recipes I did *not* credit the original publisher of the recipe, because I considered it my personal recipe page, which was very small at the time, for myself only and that of my family, and I had typed it up from hand-written notes, and those personal notes did not include where the recipe came from. So sue me...(NOT)! So, up went a Christmas cookie page (just one page with about 20 recipes all on the same page!) as a part of my personal website. This was *many* years ago. We're talking 1995 here. I had no idea where this simple page was going, and was clueless over copyright issues, the Internet, and the fact that this page was coming up in search results at Yahoo. I was a very bad girl, okay? You might even say stupid. But not criminal. Of course over time that one page morphed into something way bigger, and now I'm making a profit on it (which I was not, then) and I am now very careful to credit sources and at this point very rarely add any recipes at all, preferring to add only recipes that are user-submitted and very original. Okay, I feel guilty about it all, can you tell?

So, anyway...one day in 1996 (or so) I hear from said HUGE recipe website (was huge and still is huge). They threaten to sue me for $150k for copyright infringement over Chewy Noels. ( *snort* ) Panicking, I looked up the law regarding this. Recipes are not copyrightable. 1. A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. 2. Directions and methods can only be subject to copyright if they are "substantial literary expression." I also found the results of a lawsuit on this issue which set a precedent. I told them all this, and did not remove the recipe. No response whatsoever from the HUGE recipe website. I was still worried. Then, knowing that this was one of my old, first recipes, I went through my very first Christmas cookie cookbook, one my mom bought when I was in gradeschool. There it was. Better Homes and Gardens. Chewy Noels. I wrote back to the HUGE recipe website. I told them in no uncertain terms that the recipe was not THEIRS in the first place, it was published in a BHG cookbook 20 years ago!!! How DARE they try to claim a BHG recipe as their own, and then threaten to sue ME over it!! I suggested that I contact BHG and they can sue us both for $150,000 each. Furthermore, I found other references to Chewy Noels online, attributing them to a much older Fannie Farmer cookbook. Did BHG themselves copy the recipe from Fannie Farmer? Was the HUGE recipe site suing all the 100+ websites who also had a recipe for Chewy Noels? I scanned the recipe out of the book, as well as the copyright page from the book, and sent the scan to them, demanding a response. Finally I heard back. They just told me that I seemed remarkably well informed and that we had better just drop it; however, they would appreciate a link to their site. HA!! I did put up a link, but to Better Homes and Gardens' book. Now, obviously, I am much more careful what I do. But...sheesh. To this day I really hate the HUGE recipe website. They knew very well the laws regarding copyright but were trying to establish dominance by intimidating smaller sites into removing their content by threatening them with outrageous lawsuits that could never stand up in court. Well...screw 'em.

Who's the HUGE recipe website? Well, I won't say, but if you speak French, the phrase "toutes (les) recettes" might mean something to you. ;o)

http://www.christmas-cookies.com/recipes/recipe2.chewy-no%EBls.html

 
Very Impressive Mimi ~ You should have been a lawyer ~ It takes people such as your self to stand

up to the big corporations (in this case huge recipe web site)

That's the problem ~ think about it ~ they're all bullies and when you stand up to them with logic they sure don't have their huff and puff anymore.

I really am impressed and this semester I am taking procedural law and I know ahead I have a semester long project which will refer to big corporation ~ would it be okay ~ your permission ~ to use this is an example AND it would be without using the other website name nor this one if you prefer ~ what I am looking for is an example of standing up to and winning against big corporation ~

I am so very very impressed Mimi smileys/smile.gif

 
One thing I DON'T do is share any of my completely original recipes online. Who knows

if I won't want to use them in a book or contest in the future. I certainly don't want to see my recipes in a book by someone else.

 
I'm with you. I have a cache of cookie recipes and other baked goods that I never give out.

I have the outline of a business plan that may someday become a reality.

If not, then my kids get some excellent recipes to do with what they please!

Michael

 
All this hoopla is so silly. If you post a recipe on the World Wide Web,

be it one you created or not, it is out there for the taking. One cannot expect the recipe to be recreated exactly as written. Maybe the person making it cannot tolerate a certain ingredient, so they substitute, add a little pinch of something to make it even more special, etc.
Personally, I know when I post a recipe on a site, it is going to be used and changed the way the cooks wants it to be changed. So what?
If you want your recipe to be secret, don't post or ever print it anywhere!

 
WHOAAAA!!!! I think I would be a bit peeved too! I guess I won't credit any more recipes!

I'll just make my own modifications and leave it at that smileys/smile.gif

 
I share all my original recipes on my website, anyone can

copy them if they wish, that is why they are there. None of them are copyrighted, if other food websites copy them, hopefully they will do the professional thing and give me credit... some do and some don't.

However, this is not the case with my food Photographs I include with each recipe. All my photographs are copyrighted and belong exclusively to me, they are not to be copied. According to my Copyright Attorney they originated with my camera, any website copying and pasting them on the worldwide web are infringing upon my copyrights and I can take legal action against them for using them without my permission.

I deal with a few food websites who copy my work, they not only copy my content but other websites material as well and make it their own. It's exasperating when this happens to me... All of you understand it takes alot of time to create a recipe, put it together, test it, capture it with a camera, edit the shots, post the recipe and photograph to a website. Then someone comes along and simply "copies and pastes"? This is ridiculous! If they are maintaining a food website it would be nice if they had culinary skills.

www.finedinings.com

 
I made a recipe once that was featured in a cook book and now it's all over the net. I thought that

was kinda cool.

I can see that altering a recipe and at the same time give the credit to the original publisher is a grey area, law wise, but usually people will post the original recipe, then post the alterations. I understand that the blogger did this, so I really can't see their problem.

 
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