Understanding ecoli--because now I'm totally confused

marilynfl

Moderator
I recently had lunch with an out-of-town friend. I ordered a salad and while we were eating my friend mentioned having a severe case of ecoli from a salad while traveling. Severe to the point of being hospitalized and unconscious for 3 days. I had ALWAYS thought it was passed along by uncooked meat or lettuce--and that the lettuce was contaminated because the water used to grow it was infected with the bacteria.

My friend was traveling with her sister and both ordered the same meal...with these exceptions:
My friend ordered her salad (greens with marinated salmon, grilled veggies and cheese) as it was noted on the menu. Her sister, whom my friend considers to be Miss Nit-Picky, wanted the same salad, but wanted a fresh piece of un-marinated salmon and no veggies...just lettuce and grilled salmon. So, not really the same salad.

My friend got sick the following evening and she got sicker the day after (you don't need to know the gory symptoms). Her sister took her to the ER on the third day. She was in the hospital for 5 days.

I'm fairly certain she is NEVER going to order another salad while traveling, but my question is this: what exactly caused her symptoms? If the salmon marinade was contaminated, wouldn't grilling kill the bacteria? It couldn't be the raw salmon or lettuce because both sisters had those ingredients.

I have to say, after that conversation I really didn't enjoy my salad that day.
 
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I recently had lunch with an out-of-town friend. I ordered a salad and while we were eating my friend mentioned having a severe case of ecoli from a salad while traveling. Severe to the point of being hospitalized and unconscious for 3 days. I had ALWAYS thought it was passed along by uncooked meat or lettuce--and that the lettuce was contaminated because the water used to grow it was infected with the bacteria.

My friend was traveling with her sister and both ordered the same meal...with these exceptions:
My friend ordered her salad (greens with marinated salmon, grilled veggies and cheese) as it was noted on the menu. Her sister, whom my friend considers to be Miss Nit-Picky, wanted the same salad, but wanted a fresh piece of un-marinated salmon and no veggies...just lettuce and grilled salmon. So, not really the same salad.

My friend got sick the following evening and she got sicker the day after (you don't need to know the gory symptoms). Her sister took her to the ER on the third day. She was in the hospital for 5 days.

I'm fairly certain she is NEVER going to order another salad while traveling, but my question is this: what exactly caused her symptoms? If the salmon marinade was contaminated, wouldn't grilling kill the bacteria? It couldn't be the raw salmon or lettuce because both sisters had those ingredients.

I have to say, after that conversation I really didn't enjoy my salad that day.

I worked in a few restaurants when I was younger and my father managed and owned restaurants. The one time that I worked for him was exhausting! A lot of stuff goes on at restaurants. Besides the colorful people and drama, some of the food related stuff is just gross. One of my BIL was head chef at a landmark restaurant for many years. Sometimes local restaurants would ask him to come in for a night to run their kitchen. A celebrity chef from northern California, had filthy kitchens. And besides not being impressed with the food, I actually got mild food poisoning the first time I went there, and before my brother in law told me about how dirty the kitchens were. Two of my kids worked at a popular local restaurant a few years back. The behind the scenes stories were disconcerting. One that came to mind, was this restaurant would put french fries in a huge bowl instead of plating them direct. Any order with fries, the servers would pull the fries out of the bowl and plop them on the outgoing plates - with their hands. How could that possibly be a good idea? More recently I was in a new town and I went to the online health reports for local restaurants. Some of the things you find there are pretty bleak. I have more horrible stories from restaurants but they'd be pretty graphic and terrible...

ecoli can also be passed on by hand. So maybe your friends had different hands touch their lettuce. I remember an episode of ER that featured hand washing, where that big guy who worked behind the desk was asked if he washed his hands after using the restroom, and he replies something like 'of course!' 'wait do you mean every time?'
 
Well, it could’ve been a different batch of greens, odd but possible, but I’d think the veggies could also be contaminated in the same way lettuce is, I doubt grilling would be enough heat to kill bacteria.

in a semi related story ddh got food poisoning very bad (over 3 weeks in hospital) because given he had Crohn’s disease, it got in his blood stream due to a small ulcer in his colon (that at the time he didn’t know he had). it Took them over three weeks to figure it out because none of them had seen food poisoning get in someone’s blood stream before. Hello, ulcer.

It also could be just that her sister had a stronger system than she did. Like how some people were exposed to covid and didn’t get sick, some were barely sick, others a few days, others got long covid, and still others died. Immune systems are different in everyone. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
AND maybe it wasn't that meal. We all tend to blame the last thing we ate but it could have been even days before that.

As for sepsis, as you are describing for you dh, that is becoming an ever increasing problem without the complication of a pathway. A very dear cousin died of it last year.
 
Paul, if your explanation can help me and others understand, then yes, I would like to hear it. I assume your reference to sausage is merely a point of reference (my FIL was a butcher and I've watched him make it. It's why his was the only sausage I ate during that time). If it's too gory, perhaps a private message would be better.

I hate being this confused about food.
 
Paul, if your explanation can help me and others understand, then yes, I would like to hear it. I assume your reference to sausage is merely a point of reference (my FIL was a butcher and I've watched him make it. It's why his was the only sausage I ate during that time). If it's too gory, perhaps a private message would be better.

I hate being this confused about food.
yeah I posted it as a spoiler so you could choose to read it or not. Just click on the spoiler... Nothing spectacular really.
 
Thanks everyone.

Paul, I've read your spoiler and it only enforces my lack of desire to eat out anymore. Besides poor service and mediocre preparations, prices keep rising which means tips keep rising.

My mom used to make apple strudel in our basement. She was licensed by PA Dept of Health to prepare food there, but could not sell it out of her house as she would have then been considered a bakery. Mom told me the inspector was so impressed with her setup (3 stainless steel sinks, all stainless steel counters, etc) and the outrageously HOT water temperature she used that he said her station was cleaner and more professional than the majority of restaurants he inspected.
 
Paul, I've read your spoiler and it only enforces my lack of desire to eat out anymore. Besides poor service and mediocre preparations, prices keep rising which means tips keep rising.

My mom used to make apple strudel in our basement. She was licensed by PA Dept of Health to prepare food there, but could not sell it out of her house as she would have then been considered a bakery. Mom told me the inspector was so impressed with her setup (3 stainless steel sinks, all stainless steel counters, etc) and the outrageously HOT water temperature she used that he said her station was cleaner and more professional than the majority of restaurants he inspected.
I lived about an hour from your Mom back in the mid 90s. One of my kids was even born just outside of Pittsburgh. I wish I had known! I would have made the drive regularly for good strudel.
 
Marilyn, I found this out on the Internet==>

What food source is E. coli most commonly found in?

Primary sources of STEC outbreaks are raw or undercooked ground meat products, raw milk, and fecal contamination of vegetables. In most cases, the illness is self-limiting, but it may lead to a life-threatening disease including haemolytic uraemic syndrome (HUS), especially in young children and the elderly. Feb 7, 2018
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Paul--From your spoiler: About a million years ago I saw the exact same ER episode you referred to with the big teddy bear of a guy who worked behind the desk. It is one I have never forgotten--nor will I ever forget! ARG--and he was a hospital employee!

I also waitressed during the summers and over holiday vacations while in college as well as for the 4 years I taught high school after college so have seen some unsafe things occur in commercial kitchens. I never observed anything anyone did on purpose, but unsafe occasions can certainly happen by accident or from ignorance (like with that big ER guy on TV!).
 
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